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On a more serious note....


Esteban
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I have been following the debate on GM foods and GMOs very closely over the last year or so. I was just wondering if anyone else had come across this and was concerned just as I am about the topic.

 

If you don't know whats going on then give this a read

 

 

seeds of deception

The Debate Over Genetically Modified Foods

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Personally, I don't care. I mean, anything man does pretty mcuh kills himself and everything around him.

 

Not much of a bright side smile.gif

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Personally, I don't care. I mean, anything man does pretty mcuh kills himself and everything around him.

 

I feel pretty similarly about the issue. Just about everything we do ends up hurting us in some form or another. And yet life expectancy keeps increasing. I personally don't see how GM food could be so bad. I eat taco bell all the time, and their meat is like grade F. If that doesn't kill me, I have a hard time thinking rice with extra vitamin A will do me in.

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Personally, I don't care. I mean, anything man does pretty mcuh kills himself and everything around him.

 

I feel pretty similarly about the issue. Just about everything we do ends up hurting us in some form or another. And yet life expectancy keeps increasing. I personally don't see how GM food could be so bad. I eat taco bell all the time, and their meat is like grade F. If that doesn't kill me, I have a hard time thinking rice with extra vitamin A will do me in.

 

I love you guys.

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Personally, I don't care. I mean, anything man does pretty mcuh kills himself and everything around him.

 

I feel pretty similarly about the issue. Just about everything we do ends up hurting us in some form or another. And yet life expectancy keeps increasing. I personally don't see how GM food could be so bad. I eat taco bell all the time, and their meat is like grade F. If that doesn't kill me, I have a hard time thinking rice with extra vitamin A will do me in.

 

I can understand your point. The thing is there is people out there that do get very ill from that grade F meat. It is quite selfish to say something like that (and no offence meant by that comment).

 

Besides, even though it does not kill you, it might cause harm to your body. It might even leave you incapable of playing WoW (Gasp!). well not really... but imagine if that stomachache that made you lose focus for a split second and thus nefarian pzowned you for 3k could have been caused by some of the stuff you ate?

 

^^

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My stomach is like a cast-iron pot. I put food in, and it's happy. It doesn't really care about the nutritional content, whether it's hot or cold, whatever. Unless it's Crab made by Scrapes's mom. That's like kryptonite to my stomach.

 

In closing, I like food. I don't really care what it is, I'll eat it.

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This is a pretty big deal to me so I'm kind of excited you brought it up este =p Personally I think genetically modified / engineered foods are extremely unnatural and risque and are a breeding grounds for all sorts of environmental as well as medical damage.

 

Now.... how many Americans feel that way? Some may look at the "benefits" and think "oh that sounds great whatever" if they even take time to look at them. In reality most people will buy these foods because they are CHEAP. Genetically modified foods are cheaper to produce.

 

For example:

Granny Smith Apples sell for $.79 at Stop N' Shop. Nature's Promise Organic Granny Smith Apples, which are exactly the same only organically produced, sell for $1.09 at the same store - a different of $.30. That may not seem like a lot initially, but anyone who has gone grocery shopping before knows thats a pretty significant difference.

 

As some of you may or may not know theres been an extreme boost in interest in organically produced food in America as of late. Many products now proudly carry an organic label and organic sections of grocery strores are increasing in size. It is evident that educated [think the average New Yorker] American consumers are interested in organically grown food, and prefer it to genetically modified food.

 

So I must ask... how many of you have seen a "Genetically Modified" section at your local grocery store? Are there stickers on your fruits and vegetables with a "Genetically Modified" label? No.. we see terms like "seedless" and "extra large", which do not indicate just how they got seedless or extra large. Shouldn't GM companies be proud of this scientific development? How many people are pleased when they see the words "artificial additives" associated with their foods?

 

If you bite into a genetically modified apple and an organic apple no, there isn't going to be that much taste difference, if any at all. But what about behind the taste? Here is a link to an article eloquently entitled "Fish blood the key to low-fat ice cream". Mmm, fish blood. An exerpt for the lazy:

 

"The protein has been chemically sythensised and can be grown in vast vats which produce a brownish liquid. This is added to the ice cream and lowers the temperature at which ice crystals form and the shape they take up. It is claimed a stiff and solid mixture can then be created by using less cream or fat."

 

I could go on forever but I'm just going to throw in this website if you are further interested. "Antibiotic Threat – Via Milk Cows injected with rBGH have a much higher level of udder infections and require more antibiotics. This leaves unacceptable levels of antibiotic residues in the milk. Scientists have warned of public health hazards due to growing antibiotic resistance."

 

I'm gonna get a little sexist for a bit.... now I see a lot of you guys [literally guys] have the general "I can eat anything and I feel fine, I don't give a crap what its made out of as long as it tastes great" attitude... and being concerned about your diet / eating healthy foods is more of a "woman thing" than something guys do. As someone whose father has a personal vendetta against tofu I recognize this, but... I don't really understand it. Allow me to throw in some figures:

 

The American man lives 5.4 years fewer than does the average woman. In 2002, male life expectancy was 74.5 years. Female life expectancy was 79.9 years. (Mayo Clinic)

 

In 2002, heart disease was the #1 killer of men. Heart disease is mainly caused by high cholesterol, diabetes and high blood pressure, all effects of a poor diet.

 

Prostate cancer and colorectal cancer — both of which are associated with a high-fat diet — are the second- and third-leading causes of cancer death in men. (Mayo Clinic)

 

So c'mon guys... don't let your manliness try to influence your diet =p

 

Well I'm done preaching... but I hope I've made some of you at least think about what you're eating. It's a lot more than just "food", its fuel for your body, mind, and spirit.

 

ABC for green party prezident!!!!

 

 

Thx 4 wotching!!!!

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Personally, I don't care. I mean, anything man does pretty mcuh kills himself and everything around him.

 

I feel pretty similarly about the issue. Just about everything we do ends up hurting us in some form or another. And yet life expectancy keeps increasing. I personally don't see how GM food could be so bad. I eat taco bell all the time, and their meat is like grade F. If that doesn't kill me, I have a hard time thinking rice with extra vitamin A will do me in.

 

P.S., .... life expectancy is increasing because of medicine, not because of diet. Japan is #1 in life expectancy with 79.9 average years, whereas the U.S. is #21 with 76.8 average years. (Forces.org) We all know Japan has the best diet around the world, so... you figure it out =p

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I like how I made the *Typical Guy Comment* before Klakla ripped guys a new one. =p

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Some counterpoints to Klakla-

 

1) I don't want to live that long.

2) OMG FISH BLOOD, I don't eat low-fat food as a general rule

3) If you can't figure out how seedless fruits lost their seeds... then maybe that's just Darwin working for us

4) Sure, Japan has a great diet, and they live a long time... they also have an insanely high suicide rate. GG.

 

If cow udders unleash a deadly strain of bacteria that wipes out mankind, so be it, we deserve it for being horrible residents on the planet we call home.

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I went through this in animal care when i was doing vet medicine and people feeding "B.A.R.F." diet. stands for bones and raw food. They promote it as being healthier for your animal etc. well people even with this organically grow stuff now nothing is pure. Man/humans have polluted the earth for so long and so much that even that chicken that is only grain fed organic food is still getting chemicals. either from the pesticide in the ground or sprayed to keep bugs off or the vaccines that we are too frequently giving to people/animals. Not trying to pick on anyone but the news was recently saying that the united states uses more oil than europe so wheres that smog goin on your food or in your lungs. The world is an interesting place and there are kinds of options out there for everyone so eat what you are gonna eat, shop where you will shop and watch what yopu watch at least if you dont support the thing you like you know in your heart your are doing your part to make the world a better place in your eyes.

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haha geez you guys are all so positive about life @_@

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Hiding behind "we all decerve to die" excuse to ignore an important issue only displays laziness, and makes a very weak argument on a topic such as this. And like it or not, not every one of the 6 billion people runing around like to stand around doing nothing while they are aware that they could do something to improve their style of life.

 

You as a player of WoW should know how critical a 1% is to overall preformance. You have been on the spot where a critical strike would have saved your ass from a graveyard run. So you can catch what I mean when I say that even though something like this is so big that it looks like it cant be controlled a 1% can make a difference given the right circumstances.

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But you existing as a human being is destroying the earth. So you have two options:

 

1) Give up everything you know as your life and live as a feral creature in the wilderness

2) Destroy yourself

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Are you not paying attention? #2. I'm living a lifestyle that will destroy me : P But in all seriousness, I have put serious thought into dropping everything and living off the land in a forest somewhere. I don't think my family would be too happy with that idea though.

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my whole family cept for my dad mebbe is big on organic stuff and natural foods. and im pretty adament about eating healthily and whatnot, and i also workout /flex.

 

I haven't really followed GM foods to closely but I know that it exists and I know I don't like the idea, o.O

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But you existing as a human being is destroying the earth. So you have two options:

 

1) Give up everything you know as your life and live as a feral creature in the wilderness

2) Destroy yourself

 

Human beings aren't destroying the earth, we just don't obey nature as other animals do. I'm gonna assume that you mean if human beings didn't exist there wouldn't be anything that is "destroying" the earth. I think by destroying you're probably referring to the natural resource and general pollution that human beings have created over centuries.

 

That's basing of the fact that the way "nature" is set up is the appropriate or the "correct" way things SHOULD be set up. Nature in itself isn't perfect, before human beings ever walked the earth species of animals were dying off and plants with them. The only reason we have plants and animals now is that the organisms that survived had to adopt or be killed by the environment around them

 

Human beings just don't obey that process, we aren't going to be wiped out just because mother nature didn't provide us with certain necessities. For example a bear might need it's fur to keep warm, while a man would just kill the bear and use it's fur to stay warm. We don't require nature in order to sustain life and it's probably due to the fact that human beings can make independent choices. To say that we are destroying earth ( and I'm assuming you mean harming nature and not literally trying to blow up the earth with nukes tongue.gif ) is to assume that nature shouldn't be tempered with, why the hell not?

 

What Nature is to animals, technology is to human beings. We can and would substitute technological achievements for the lack of nature taking care of our needs. If apple trees stop growing and some crazy ass millionaire wants apples for his birthday...you better believe there will be some scientists giving him artificial apples. We don't require nature because we can survive without it, though that is not to say that a hurricane here or a earthquare there won't shake things up. It might hurt us initially but like cockroaches we will survive.

 

This goes away from the main topic of artificial foods, to which I have to say if you like what it tastes like who cares how it got cooked.

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This goes away from the main topic of artificial foods, to which I have to say if you like what it tastes like who cares how it got cooked.

 

 

I'm only happy if my food used to have a face and was possibly named or was someone's pet >:D

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This topic is such a gray issue. To be honest, i see both sides... and i dont mind either one.

 

Just being brief.

 

First off, man has tried to be God since the dawn of existence so that argument is pretty much irrelevant. Our attempts to explain things we didnt understand lead to faith and religion to ease the tensions and keep the peace but at the same time caused more problems. At some point in our history, Science came about and has vaslty overtaken religion in a sense of explaining things but not necessarily in terms of faith. Science is a tool... its people who're using it who screw things up in our world.

 

On a side note, anyone who has done some Physics should hv at least heard about the chaos theory... and just like some theories in economics, it also applies to human nature. Interesting stuff.

 

Civilisation has reached a stage where our control of creation is reaching a level that the average person doesnt understand - i dont understand most of this GM stuff but i'm not that worked up about it... to each his/her own.

I hv no clue as to how a nuclear power plant is run but its technology has both solved and raised new problems, yet the majority of people tolerate it... there were no major issues when this technology came about because we didnt hv much moral or ethical sense to move upon. However, the minute Science shows signs of tampering with things we consider 'holy' such as tampering with human beings and the food we eat where our moral and ethical beliefs generally revolve around natural birth, staying naturally fit and eating fresh food... immediate protest arises because we hv established some ethics and morals about this issue.

 

If we created an extreme scenario where GM food would literally save the human race... what would you say about that? If it was certain that we stayed organic or our current course of action would lead to destruction and GM food and other related stuff would save us... would you still reject it?

Obviously, in this scenario... GM food didnt hv side effects and it has improved the standard of living worldwide on a grand scale.

 

Now, the opposite... it has become apparent that GM food as well as playing God down to a molecular level is leading us to destruction. Returning back to nature and living clean and organic is to become our salvation... would you disregard it?

 

The scenarios are unlikely but depending on the information at your disposal... your opinions on issues such as this can vastly change. Looking at an ethical point of view... GM technology is a double-edged sword.

Let's create another extreme scenario... lets say your against GM... but you're going to become a mother/father/brother/sister however, your child/sibling has been identified with some kind of defect during an early stage of pregnancy and the chances are high, he or she'll will be retarded at birth however, we hv the technology to prevent this - what would you do? What is ethically and morally right?

You cant really say for sure simply because we hvnt had many of these scenarios happen - moral and ethical understanding basically establishes from things that happen around you - more than likely you'll be a hypocrite and choose to save your child/sibling, but what if you had read about this in an article and it asked for your opinion... would your opinion differ?

Your opinions on issues change drastically when it shifts from objective to subjective... saving a child from being retarded is in the same catogary as genetically-enhancing your child... both aim to give your child a better chance at life from an objective point of view. Subjectively however, opinions, again, vary drastically.

The human mind is a very powerful tool but also easily manipulated... just look at propoganda theories... it happens everyday (TV anyone?).

 

Yes, there are black and white scenarios where there's a clear right and wrong but those topics arent discussed 'cos its obvious to the majority of poeple.

The controversial topics are gray and there's no right or wrong... if there was a clear winner, why would it be considered controversial in the first place?

 

Technology isnt bad... GM has huge potential to do good things... just like most of the technologies in our lives today... its the people that abuse it. Who's the bad guy? The scientist pushing the boundaries of understanding or the business man exploiting a potential moneymaker? It depends.

 

So many angles and so many arguments... reaching a conclusion that everyone will agree with is unlikely.

 

At the end of the day... we can say what we want, but money runs the world. Its a fact that GM foods reduce costs and hv a huge potential to do good. 10 years down the line they might even save us but simply because some entreprenuer saw a profit in it... the technology got jumped way too early and now we're suffering somewhat.

 

What if we all stopped eating GM food and therefore stopped all the demand so it'll stop?

Good question... but if you think this is a valid question whereas my scenarios above are extreme... uhmm... i wish i was optimistic as you.

 

It'll never happen... and even if it did... it would be temporary. There's too much money involved and unfortunately there's no such thing as an uncorrupt society/government/body.

 

Hving said all of that... i choose fresh and organic over GM and processed food when i can but i wouldnt go out of my way to stay purely to one or the other.

 

At the end of the day, with what information you hv at your disposal... make your choice. Dont be surprised if it changes now and then, you're not alone... people change their minds all the time. Always keep an open mind... it makes things easier.

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Ya dag said it wayy better than i did ... make your own choice and live by it

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Personally I haven't given it very much thought. At least not anywhere near what you all seem to have. As long as it's dead (and in some cases not) I'll eat it. Though I've had to eat foods that had a 30 year shelf life before, I really don't think it can get much worse than that.

 

Worst thing I ever ate was a ham and cheese omlet that was made before Vietnam.

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Heh, I remember writing a bunch of position papers for health class about GE foods. Anyway, this is how things stand last I remember:

 

1.) ~ 60% of foods in the US are GE, or have GE ingredients in them.

2.) The US has no stringent GE regulation in place today

3.) Europe has very strict regulations on any GE produce, and has susequently larger costs.

 

Now to shed some light on the topic, and actually explan what GE foods are I'll make a little summary:

 

From the time man began to farm, he altered the genes of plants. He did this through the process of artificial selection, where he chose the best plants and encouraged them to grow in ways they would not naturally. Corn grew from a tiny 7-seed plant, to our modern cob. Wheat became an easily grown and abundant crop from a weed. In our modern era, we found a more direct and expedient method of doing this; directly changing the DNA of plants and animals.

 

Here, we get a direct split in what Genetic Modification actually is. The first discovered method was that of polypid plants. This means that a plant is forced to grow with double the normal chromosomes. This yields larger fruit, providing a lower cost and income per acre. However, these plants can not reproduce. That means the farmer is dependant on the GE producer year after year, and must buy new seed instead of using that from the harvest. Later on, real genetic modification came to fruition allowing growers to change the properties of plants, without the addition of foreign DNA. Wheat could be made to grow in harsher climates, and allow people to farm previously unacessible land. The only issue that seems prevalent with this sort of modification is the doomsday theory that these new plants will outcompete the current ones, dominate the gene pool and be wiped out by a plague. *shrug*

 

Now, the real point of contention are plants (and animals) which have DNA from other plants and/or animals inserted into theirs. So you get rice with carotine, corn with pig vaceene and a whole menagerie of things you'd be hard pressed to think about. The main problem with such modification is containment. If you have a field of corn in Iowa which produces pig vaceene, you don't want it cross polinating with normal corn and have every American eat the GE product which probably wasn't tested on humans. At the same time, such things as modified rice continue the effort by manufacturers and our government to ensure propper nutrition. (Iodized salt anyone?) That way, you can eat a poorer selection of foods while (hopefuly) staying healthy.

 

 

As for myself, I don't see much of a problem as long as my steak doesn't begin to glow in the dark, or my cellery turn orange. wink.gif

Oh, and as for Klakla's "men don't eat healthy" thing, I've been eating what I want in the past 6 months, since the family's food shopping has been turned over to me. Guess what? I lost 20 pounds. /flex tongue.gif

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